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Breeding Information about breeding, selection, litters.... |
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29-07-2008, 11:04 | #21 | |
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Perhaps breeding is a different issue, I do not know about that, because I think my husband was more asking about the problem of actually bringing CSW into UK and having it there. Not sure if he asked about breeding, too. |
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29-07-2008, 11:16 | #22 | |
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Just to find out in the end that any dog's DNA differs from wolf's DNA by 1% or something like this. But in this case we don't talk of CSV breeding any more, because a CSV pup must be born from CSV parents. |
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29-07-2008, 11:23 | #23 |
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Sorry, I made a mistake. The highest wolf genes amount in CSV is around 30%, so you need to start from 30/70
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29-07-2008, 12:37 | #24 |
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I think, wolfdogs have not over 30%.
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29-07-2008, 15:46 | #25 |
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simple question - simple answer:
a csw with 32 % who is mated with a csw having 28 % do have pups 32 % + 28 % = 60 % : 2 = 30 %. If this "child" of 30 % will be mated with another csw of 34 % = 64 % : 2 = 32 %. So again you will never reach zero. cheers Angelika |
29-07-2008, 15:53 | #26 |
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29-07-2008, 16:22 | #27 | |
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1. the genetics 2. the distance from the last "fresh" wolf blood insertion, which has nothing to do with genetic calculations or percentages. I don't belive people in DEFRA are that ignorant as to think that after 100 generations of matching CSV with CSV the GSD's genes would be earased from them, so why should the wolf's be? Maybe they think that if for several generations the dogs "behaved themselves" it would mean the 'wilderness' in them was tamed, but this argument is even more absurd in the light of the possibility of breeding "dangerous" breeds and the fact that even the Yorshire terrier may be a wild beast if badly socialised and treated. I think DEFRA people don't want to legitimize the breed for totally different reasons, which I think I understand now better than before. Still, it has nothing to do with allowing CSVs to travel to or to live in the UK to which there are no barriers other than for other breeds/dogs. |
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29-07-2008, 16:49 | #28 |
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29-07-2008, 16:50 | #29 |
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Whole "wolfblood percentage" counting is absolutelly stupidity, because it says NOTHING. Its like you counting settlement density in country and you are supriced, that average density is 12 people/sqkm and you dont see so much people in forrest. "Wolfblood percentage" is pure aritmethic number. Have nothing to do with breed.
Rona write it correct. Every dog have some percentage of wilf animal, from which came in the past. But nobody can conting it, because is not the dates. Maybe some boxers or shitzu have more "wildblood percentage", than CsW, but nobody can counting it. And clearly mathematic - all dogs have 100% "wildblood", because dogs came not through crossing wild animals with some space creatures, but all dogs came from domestication wild animals only. This is differency between "domestication" and "wilfblood counting", whats many people dont want understand. |
29-07-2008, 17:41 | #30 | |
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Tikanni, I'm afraid only DEFRA is in a position to answer the last question, and I doubt if they're willing to. |
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29-07-2008, 19:15 | #31 | |
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06-08-2008, 18:08 | #32 |
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Hello
according to how thay count in the US, GSD has 0% Wolfblood. Mixing Wolf = 100% Wolfblood whit GSD = 0% gives a Hybride (F1)on 50% Wolfblood. If mixing this Hybrid whit a GSD you have 50% + 0% / 2 = 25% Wolfblood on generation 2 (F2). If DEFRA wonts to count like thay do in the US generaton 5 (F5) in the year 1989 when FCI allowed the breed international was only 1,56% Wolfblood. Maby this Mathematical system can be used by DEFRA to Best Regards / Mikael
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07-08-2008, 20:14 | #33 | |
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But way do you have it on the Planned Litter then ??? comfusing buyers ??? especially when it ses "Data not available" or "Only fore Registred users. In the text on this site it ses that it is a Hybrid mix from the begining, but nothing about that the hybrid after this was crosst only whit GSD from generation F2-F5 intill FCI allowed the breed as CsV in 1989, or am I wrong ??? If you would write this in the HISTORY maby people / gowerments don´t have to ask or worry about the Woof Blood ? less try to count ? Swedish Kennel Club had exactly this argument to not allow the breed in there pedigee book fore years "it ses on the international website that it is a Hybid mix." Best Regards / Mikael
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08-08-2008, 11:33 | #34 | ||
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Przemek, I suggest that when reconstruting the database, instead putting the wolfblood, you should put the GSD blood percentage. People with the Little Red Riding Hood syndrom will probably not even notice it and the CSVs owners will still have their 'gadget' Quote:
Maybe Swedish Kennel Club should employ people who are more internet literate and bother to read the history of the breed (top left part of the screen, next to breed standard) before making any official statements?... |
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08-08-2008, 16:10 | #35 | |
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To make statements or impose laws on a dog breed on the basis of what is written on somebody´s private website is totally ridiculous! |
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08-08-2008, 17:04 | #36 | |
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Don’t worry Rona I know And I can agree that the Swedish Kennel Club did not wont to find out, but if they would read the History they would not have find out that the CsV are mostly GSD would they ??? And Rona seriously do you really think that a government can make a decision after have red something on a Forum, they need Facts not Gossip. And if it say it clearly in the History, way do people from England ask you think ??? Thay know rather god English I believe. And way do you think that the Clubs or Governments in Norway, Sweden and England have hard to find this Facts ??? It’s pretty easy to write nowadays CsV Wolf Blood is well under 30 %, or ??? And I’m enormously curious hove they counted when they decided CsV was between 25-30% Wolf Blood ??? I have met pure Hybrids on both 50 % and 75 % Wolf Blood, and believe me its more than a normal CsV owner can handle, compered to those Hybrids CsV are in my eyes not more then a dog whit a very little % Wolf Blood, maybe not more than 5-10% or 90-95% GSD if you prefer. Very Best Regards / Mikael
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08-08-2008, 17:16 | #37 |
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I'm afraid you're expecting too much from people who think that with time genes mixed with similar genes will disappear from the genotype ...
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08-08-2008, 18:13 | #38 | |||
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Personally I'm internally convinced CSVs are a few-percent wolves in behaviour and 70-75% or even more in appearance Who dares to disagaree with me? |
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08-08-2008, 19:11 | #39 | |
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The Norwegian and English governments used a report from the US and compared Saarloos and Cs Wolfdogs whit the Hybrids in the US, and certain Wolfdogs was up to 98% Wolf, but in this report they call all Hybrids and High content Wolfdogs only "Wolfdogs", and sens (we) say CsV are up to 30% Wolf now CsV and Saarloos are not allowed there any more. There fore counting Wolf Blood is not fore fun in my eyes Regards / Mikael
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08-08-2008, 20:53 | #40 |
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In our country, and more specifically, states, there has been the struggle of what the legal definition of a wolfdog, or wolf hybrid is. Some states continue to outlaw hybrids, but I know from speaking to a family in one of those states, the government allows the CSV, since it has documentation that it is a dog. My state (Virginia) leaves it to the city or county to govern hybrids - you must have an exotic animal permit (and meet health/safety requirements) to legally keep a hybrid (of course, many are kept illegally in the US, though not in my city). I am NOT required to have a permit for our CSVs...they are registered DOGS.
Part of the question for the US government, or court, or animal control officer I think is: Who determines what a dog is - the kennel club, a veterinarian, green aliens from spaceships? I think our governments are smart (in this tiny instance) to recognize that there are organizations with more knowledge than themselves (such as AKC, or a veterinarian) to know what a dog is. Our AKC reciprocates registry with the FCI - if FCI calls it a dog, so does the AKC. The FCI called the CSV a dog in 1982, then AKC trusts, it is a dog (we just don't have enough CSVs here yet to have full AKC breed recognition). Dog x dog = 100%dog Just in case our government had any questions, they look to the American Humane Society, who says anything after F5 is a dog - our dogs are several generations past... Our new neighbors through the forest are not so easy to convince! I think our breed is just very honest about our "roots", for better or worse - all breeds, if you go back in the history many decades or hundreds or thousands of years, would say a wolf was crossed with dog, or humans selected traits of wolves to use...blah, blah, blah - this history is not as important to other breeds as what queen owned it first, etc. Obviously in terms of conformation and purpose, the wolf was an important component to our CSVs - but the component, through the art and science of breeding has been controlled to only the "usable" qualities.. |
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