Defense Training

[WolfmanUSA]

How are CzWs in defense training? Do they make good guard/personal protection dogs?

[Mirkawolf]

You can train the CSW defense and you can make him a good guard. However, it is harder than with for example German shepherd or malinois etc. Also, the way to train them is different and if the dog club, where you train with your CSW, does not have experiences with the breed, it is possible they can make bad mistakes or destroy the will of the dog to do the task at all. From these reason, it is very important to find a dog club, where they have individual approach to each dog´s needs and where they think about what they do and how the dog reacts. If they train all the dog races the same way, then better don´t train defence at all or find another club.
The wolfdog will, when adult, guard you as a person by himself, more or less, without a training (but of course, not when you tell him, but when he thinks he has to, which might be problem). From this reason, if you wish your dog to be a guardian more than a friendly pet to everyone, you better train defence somewhere to get understand your dogs reactions and how he behaves in certain situations. The dog will also learn how to deal with strange people, when to attack and when not, to listen to your commands and to let go when you command him to etc.

The wolfdog will, naturally, guard your property, be it your flat, house or garden. No one has to teach him this. My wolfdogs do it naturaly too, and they start to guard any property they visit (ie where they are not at home, like friend´s house or garden) within 10 minutes. Even the puppy that is 5 months now, would bark at strangers passing or ringing door bell.

Please note, that everything I said is valid only for wolfdogs that come from non problematic kennels, that are raised with much care and love, used to people and other dogs, socialised well as puppies and given lots of care, excersise and training from youngsters to adult. Only self-confident, well socialised wolfdog will guard you and your house. Never a shy one.

Mirka

[Dayen]

Hello... at first I wrote quite long letter about behaving of my dog. When I posted it I realized you cannot understand without seein this dog. So I deleted this message. It can be good only for incomprehension of what I've written.

[Mirkawolf]

I wish you good luck, but my opinion is, you should not train defense with dog, who is not self-confident enough. He bites from fear, not from feeling any strong.
I think you should first teach the dog, that the incoming persons are no thread to him, to let them pet him or touch him and reward him for that. I´d only reward positive behaviour towards people from now on. I´d stop training any defense, unless it would be defense done in style of play - hunting the object (not the actual guy, but a toy etc.).
Once the dog is okay to go around and does not fear people in any situation, then I´d think about training defence, not earlier.

Mirka

[Pavel]

Teach the shy dog to bite by defence training is the best way to have the problem in the future. Mirka is 100% right. Dog bite from fear and can come situation later, when from fear attack somebody from back. 99% of dogs attack against people are not self confidence dogs, which biting from fear.
Shy must be wolf, not any dog. And CsW is same dog, like any else races.

[Dayen]

Hello... at first I wrote quite long letter about behaving of my dog. When I posted it I realized you cannot understand without seein this dog. So I deleted this message. It can be good only for incomprehension of what I've written.

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by Shadowrunner

Hello... at first I wrote quite long letter about behaving of my dog. When I posted it I realized you cannot understand without seein this dog. So I deleted this message. It can be good only for incomprehension of what I've written.

Do you think, that its a best solution - one time something write and when somebody react on your comment, then delete it ? Do you shame about your comment or you think now, that you wrote some nonsense ?

[Dayen]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Do you think, that its a best solution - one time something write and when somebody react on your comment, then delete it ? Do you shame about your comment or you think now, that you wrote some nonsense ?

Hi Pavel,
I'm sorry for this, but I cannot describe behaving of my dog so good that it could be asset for anybody. Because he really doesn't bite from fear. But when I red my first and second letter once again - it was a story of another dog, not mine. And I also agree with your and Mirka's opinion. But without defense training I woulnd't do any improvement with behaving of my dog

(you don't know how hard I tried until I started to do defense with him - maybe it would be better to say until he started to do defense trainig by his own will for a leather rag. Since this time, behaving of my dog was better and better)

So, I'm sorry once again because this was not what I wanted.

You know the best, how strong personality CZW can be. By respecting this I started do to defense training with dog that is afraid of the caress of the strange people. But I can't describe to you how the true behaving of my dog is. At the first sight, he looks normal. Now. Because of all I did for him. Long, long story to tell. Not winned at all. We will fighting together .. forever.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by WolfmanUSA

How are CzWs in defense training? Do they make good guard/personal protection dogs?

Yes and...no... It depends what you mean. If you mean protection as sport than I can say: no. They are much worser than other breeds because they do not attack "just for fun", without any reasons. So if you work with Wolfdog:
- it will attack if it sees a reasons for it - if the decoy will work "hard" and play his role really good. The dog must FEEL the owner is in real danger. It is really hard to set a dog on decoy if the CzW knows the man is just playing his role....
- it will attack because it is fun for him. But in this case you will see the dogs "laughts"... I don't think the judges will like it...

Anyway: for me CzW are very good guard dogs because if the are propertly socialized (are not shy!) they will handle only in serious cases. I had GSD before and I can say the GSD was trained for IPO. But I feel much more safe with Bolton - a CzW with .... basic obedience....

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by Margo

Yes and...no... It depends what you mean. If you mean protection as sport than I can say: no. They are much worser than other breeds because they do not attack "just for fun", without any reasons.

I agree : they are much worser in defense work than many other breed (not ALL breed, please! ) but I don't agree on the second point : if well trained and with a well balanced and socialized character, they can make protection work for fun, just to play and they can play well, as many other breed not so specialized in work -e.g malinois or work lines of GS-

Both our dogs attack for fun, just to play, and the decoy is absolutely relaxed, no-agressive at all. And they bite well !

Originally Posted by Margo

- it will attack because it is fun for him. But in this case you will see the dogs "laughts"... I don't think the judges will like it...

who care about judges, if the dogs play, that's what I call "sport"

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Navarre

if well trained and with a well balanced and socialized character, they can make protection work for fun, just to play and they can play well, as many other breed not so specialized in work -e.g malinois or work lines of GS-

Not "protection for fun" but "attack without any reason" was the point I wanted to show... Jolly is also crazy about protection - so it is not surprising she is called "frog" because of all this crazy things she is doing during the protection....

OK, an example with CzW not trained for protection (but great protection dog in serious cases ).

===============

PLACE: training field

CHARACTERS: dogs (GSDs, Malinios, mixes, aso. + one CzW), their owners and decoy

Shot 1: Dogs are waiting. The decoy comes in protection uniform.
Dogs: Barking.
CzW: Standing and looking.

Shot 2: Decoy running.
Decoy: Uuuuuaaaa uuuuuaaaa uuuuuaaaa [not very convincing]
Dogs: Barking. Froth on their muzzles.
CzW: Standing and looking.

Shot 3: Decoy attacking the CzW
Decoy: Uuuuuaaaa uuuuuaaaa uuuuuaaaa [still not very convincing]
Dogs: Barking. Froth on their muzzles.
CzW: Smile on his muzzle. Falling on ground with the front legs in position "invitation for game": Aaahhhh - you want to play????

============
What to say: I know CzWs which make great protection work. Which really love it. But they like the whole situation. They make it with fun and not with real aggression.... It is one case. The second is: if the CzW makes something with real aggression it must be a real situation (real danger or good decoy ).

[Vaiva]

I'm sorry if it was already spoken about this, but I wanted to ask if anyone have tried sporting Mondioring with CsW? I've read a little about this sport and I started thinking, that my CsW would be happy and content if she had a possibility to try mondioring.

[deocamdata]

I know that this thread is old but probably the subject will be always interesting ...
So ... what do you think about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk3s4PGkPKg

Can be a part of the training program for a CSW ?

[jefta]

Originally Posted by deocamdata

So ... what do you think about this:

nice work, he presents both drives this dog was trained more or not?